Whichever side of this debate you fall on, and I personanlly support centers and oppose this watering down, I think another important issue is the underhanded way that FCPS has handled this proposal. No parents were involved in the planning and when parent outcry forced FCPS to hold community input meetings no one was allowed to ask public questions. The FCPS staff turned off the microphone and literally turned away from the crowd.

My child has been in an AAP center since third grade, and honestly I don't know too much about the expansion plan. However, as someone who works in the field of education, I know most kids can benefit from the same kinds of enrichment activities that AAP kids do, though not necessarily full tme. That's not to say, though, that the county should rush into these changes without adequate thought or discussion. That said, the biggest reason I wanted to post this comment is to say how obnoxious it is to refer to AAP kids as "light year kids." I have never heard this term before, but it's awful. I have always taught my daughter that what matters in her education is whether she is being challenged to her full potential, not what other kids are doing. Implicit in this term is comparison to others and it carries an air of superiority about it. I am so annoyed by parents who put their kids in all kinds of extra classes so they can be admitted to the AAP program just to be able to say their kids are in the AAP program. That's NOT what the program is supposed to be about.

Finding the right term for these kids is not easy. I am not comfortable with the term "light year kids" either. FCPS used to call this program Gifted and Talented but has now switched the program to AAP, Advanced Academic Program. I think of my son as an intellectual kid, which makes him different but no better than an athletic kid or an artistic kid. Regardless of the terminology used, I feel strongly that these kids have different academic needs than other kids. I have been concerned that FCPS proposed watering the program down during the end of Superintendent Dale's term rather than waiting for the new team to re-evaluate the program. I am pleased to see that many school board members want to slow the process down and give more thought to this major re-structuring of the FCPS program. I hope we can continue to have an intelligent conversation about the educational needs of our diverse student population.

I did not say that those who use that term do so to say that their kids are in the AAP program. My point was that being in the AAP program is seen a status thing, and that some parents push to have their kids there irrespective of their child's actual capabilities, rather than doing what's actually good for their child. I've seen kids who didn't belong there suffer. I don't disagree with the term Advanced Academic Placement, which reflects where the kids are academically. They are advanced, no question about it. I object to these kids being labelled as so far beyond anyone else using a phrase that implies superiority. Though you decided to be snarky with me and insult my educational expertise, I actually considered your analogy to sports and do see your point. However, I see a difference. When you are an All Star in sports, it reflects participation, practice, a season of performance, and...key...competition and performance compared to others. That is the nature of sport. It is a competition. Education, at a general level, should not be. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a second grader who studies really really hard to get ahead of his or her peers so that he or she can get into the AAP program in third grade unless his or her parents force it. Another difference is that the AAP program is supposed to be for kids who learn differently and are quick learners, not kids who are forced to study really hard at age 8 to get there. O

Sorry, my post above was meant to be in reply to curveball.

Forgive me for not using a good transition between my sentences in my first post. I will remember that next time I post a reaction on a neighborhood blog it needs to be a well-crafted essay. I don't consider that I have been "called" on any point. I just tried to better explain the point I was making. But you refuse to accept my clarification. I didn't criticize you in my first response, yet you continued to do so in your follow-up response to me. Either you don't have experience with the kind of parent I am talking about or you are one. Accepted.

Hi folks,

Just wanted to share an update from tonight's school board meeting

http://oakton.patch.com/articles/board-wants-more-time-to-weigh-advanced-academics-shift

Thanks for reading and engaging,
Erica

Thank you, Erica, for the update!

As a former teacher, I find the term "light year kids" somewhat inappropriate.
It is rare to find a child who is "light years" ahead of the others in a class--though it certainly does happen. If a child is "light years" ahead of the others, then he/she does need additional services.
The problem in Fairfax County Public Schools is that there are far too many students in AAP classes who are NOT light years ahead of the mainstream. Most of them should be in mainstream classes and learning to function in a world of diversity. Back in the day, teachers managed to teach all the children in a class--no matter what their level.
Never will there be a class where all the students are exactly on the same level. Even in AAP, there are students who are way behind the others or way ahead.
FCPS needs to go back to the time when only the truly gifted went to the centers. This program has become uncontrollable. Some principals readily put students into these programs when a parent insists upon it. There are some schools in affluent neighborhoods where more students are in the AAP classes than in the mainstream classes. This is ridiculous.

Asra,
I am far from an expert in this. A lot of my current information is anecdotal.

About 20 years ago, FCPS changed the way it selected students for the GT program. Prior to this, the students were selected based only on the Otis-Lennon and the CogAt results. As I understand it, there was no teacher input. I think that only about 1% or 2 % were selected-although I may be mistaken on that.
Then, around 20 years ago, FCPS added the Gifted Behavior scale to the mix-which added teacher input. In my mind, this is not objective-although it certainly is worthy. When the scale was added, the number of students selected went up dramatically. At my school, it quadrupled. The number selected continued to rise every year. Parents also began having their children tested privately if their child was not selected. This increased the number of students. The program went from a highly selective GT program to what is something quite different.
I understand from staff members, that if a parent is persistent, some principals will allow the child into the program-even if the test scores do not support it. (I do not know if this is absolutely true.) I also know that some parents send their kids to prep courses for the IQ tests. One staff member told me that one of the kids said they had done the same test in the prep class. An IQ test is not an achievement test. It should not require practice. In fact, practice demeans the test. I think it invalidates the test.

(cont)
I think a "light years kid" would be a child who is intellectually curious and works independently. It is a child who does not require lots of practice and drill to understand or learn concepts. It is a child who grasps things the first time without assistance. I do not believe that the AAP centers are full of "light year kids". I think very bright kids belong with their friends in their local schools. The GT(AAP) should be for those who truly cannot and do not function in their home school.

Asra Nomani

Please explain what you mean by "... increasing the participation of the county's increasingly growing number of African American and Hispanic students..." Do you mean incorporating more of them into the AAP program? I'm not sure to what you are referring. Is the population of African Americans and Hispanic students growing and they don't participate in something -- sports, education? I"m a little confused.
Also, I too don't like the "light year kids" term. Fostering the desire to learn is something you move children towards at a very early age. Just like some children love sports, some children really do love to learn. Speaking of sports, in my experience Fairfax County can be an expensive place to raise an all-star athlete. You will need good resources to get your child on a consistent sports team (soccer, basketball, gymnastics, skating, hockey, baseball, swimming). These teams have the better coaches, neighborhood facilities, or parents who will and can pay. Encouraging education doesn't require good connections and often, it's inexpensive. You may not always be cheering from the sidelines, but seeing your child develop a higher appreciation for astronomy, math, or science can be cool too. If a parent chooses to pay more for testing, they can, but it isn't always necessary to produce an all-star. An all- star can be an all-star writer, reader, musician, artist, thinker... Should the county do away with AAP altogether?

Dear Concerned Parent, Thank you for writing! The issue of increasing the participation of black and Hispanic students in AAP is part of a wider debate that I have learned has been going on in the county (and the country) about the "achievement gap" or the "gifted gap," in which blacks and Hispanics are described as the "underrepresented minority," or in the jargon of the education business, I've now learned, "URM."

The notion of "underrepresented" is language used to distinguish these minority groups from Asians, a minority group, that is not "underrepresented."

I hope that clarifies?

And you're not alone in not liking the "light year kids" concept! But, as I mentioned, as a writer, I use that concept as a means of trying to capture quickly a debate, indeed, that is not simple, easy, or as we can see in just the comments here, without controversy.

You raise an interesting an important point, however, that I have also heard talked about: whether the "achievement gap," in part, reflects an "income gap," because indeed, as you mention about parents paying for children to go to batting camps and the like, the economic component of academic achievement can also include academic camps, tutoring, "enrichment" programs that cost money, from LegoFirst memberships to personal hourly math tutors.

I agree encouraging education doesn't require money, but I think we have to be honest that, in reality, it does include that dimension, especially in a county as wealthy as Fairfax County. To me that's part of our larger public debate.

You end with asking whether the county should end the AAP venture? Before I was educated myself on the nature of "gifted" learning, I too wondered this, but I am increasingly convinced that, just as remedial learners need special services, I do very much understand, from a teaching perspective, why we need educational services that address our learners who grasp ideas really quickly, move leaps and bounds ahead of their grade level in math, reading, writing and other subjects.

That's why I believe, no matter what we call them, they shouldn't be "left behind."

Big picture, countywide, do you think that we all need more of a basic education on what "gifted" learning is about? I know I've need a real education myself!

Thank you for writing! Gratefully, Asra

"Light Year Kids" is pretty offensive. I think all children should be tested at the earliest possible age and divided into five groups: Alpha, Beta, Delta, Epsilon, and Gamma. Each group will have its own tailored curriculum based on their abilities. That way, no will be left behind and everyone will be properly challenged. Where should we tattoo the greek letter onto each child - someplace subtle like the wrist or obvious like the forehead?

Dear Uncle Smartypants, I understand why you many consider it offensive, and I can understand why you might extrapolate the kind of differentiation that you are suggesting. This is a very difficult conversation to have, especially in an area that seems as amorphous as intellect, academics and cognition.

As a society, we easily make the kind of distinctions that you are talking about in athletics. For example, my son plays McLean Mustangs football. At the 75-pound level, when the boys are in about fourth grade, they go to summer practice, and they are divided into three levels, "based on their abilities," to borrow your language: American, Central and then National. They don't get their status tattooed on their foreheads, to borrow from your analogy again, but they do wear it on their sleeves, figuratively speaking.

I think we would agree it would be a disservice to put a "National" kid on an "American" team where he would face hits and a pace of play that wouldn't match his abilities. In the same way, I think you might agree that it wouldn't be fair to put an "American" kid on a "National" team. He may be the star, but he wouldn't be as challenged as he could be.

As a mom, when my son made the National team, I knew he was in the best place he should be for his level of play and his pace of learning. I cheered him as passionately as every parent did for their sons on the American and Central teams. I know it happens, and this we have to reflect upon as a society and individuals, but, for me, distinctions don't have to carry an assumed judgment, nor an assumed fate. My son, for example, thinks the NFL maybe in his future, but I'm gently suggesting he keep his options open :)

In athletics, as with academics, "abilities" is part nature, part nurture, I think we can all agree. Indeed, I believe, as perhaps you do, as well, that we should all be able to succeed to the best of our "abilities."

It is a painful, painful topic of conversation, I very much understand, and I apologize for pushing a button for you, but I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, and I hope I have been able to explain my own thinking to you with some level of clarity.

Warmly, Asra

Why don't we just have "star bellied Sneetches" and those without?

Asra, I understand your youth football analogy-but it doesn’t work in this instance. Football placement is for one season. Next year, your son might be Central or American-or decide not to play. In the AAP program, there is little flexibility once the student is placed. Rarely does a poor performer get sent back to the “regular” school. It is more difficult to place in after third grade. This whole program is based on placement in third grade.
Many AAP parents do think their children are “light year” children. Most are probably not that far ahead of the top student left behind. The program just does not take into consideration that some children grow and mature after second grade and are being identified way too early as high achievers-or high achievers. When such a high percentage of FCPS students are in the AAP program, it cannot possibly be what it was initially intended to be.
The integrity of the program has been damaged by the prep courses, private testing, and parent pressure.
I also think that a lot of AAP parents do not realize that there is a huge jump between second and third grade for all students—even those in regular classes. They feel that their child was not getting challenged in second grade, and then they go to the AAP program and have so much more work. This happens for all third graders
It is time to reevaluate this program.

Dear Kathy Keith, Thanks for your thoughts--I agree that there is a deeper conversation we need to have. I do think it's unfortunate that there is a 2nd grade cutoff. Though you can be added later, I agree with you that it's harder. There are a lot of serious issues you've raised that I hope the school board and FCPS let us talk about as a community. Asra

Uncle Smartypants and Seriously, Yes, your literary references flew by, over my head. Asra

Well, I should say, I know the stories of the Sneetches and how Dr. Seuss used them as a metaphor for the perils of discrimination. What I don't believe is that "differentiated" learning, as is the euphemism to describe learning like AAP, has to mean discrimination. I understand that it could be problematic, carried out poorly, but I dont believe it has to be. We all learn best when we are taught at our level, with the capacity to grow and expand. Best, Asra

I just wanted to say, how cool is it that I live in the same county as Asra Nomani! I am a fan of your books. Thank you for all of your work, and bringing light into this world!

It seems that the program exploded once subjective factors (read: parents and teachers) began to influence enrollment. Return admission to this program to completely objective, test-based results. Might not stop the prep-takers (and the parents that can afford that), but at least the wanna-bes (pushy parents that need to validate their little precious not-geniuses) and insiders (like teachers who are parents and get their undeserving kid into the program) can be kept out.

I've met a few of these so-called 'Gifted and Talented'. Yeah, not so much...

Now that I understand it's not pure academics and scores, but also parental influence that grants acceptance, it makes far more sense how they got in.

Return the program to pure merit-based, and yes, give the truly brightest students the academic challenges they need without the hangers-on dragging down the curve. But don't label them 'light year' or 'indigo' kids - they already have enough social issues to deal with, as academically advanced students.

No kids of my own, light year or otherwise.

Really, this should be part of a larger conversation about school in general. We have made a huge investment in the classroom-based, 30 plastic chairs in a room, fixed bell schedule, 186 days/year, count the instructional hours, 20th century model of education, but research tells us that every kid is different, learns in different ways, learns at different speeds. We tell our teachers to differentiate the educational experience to meet each child's individual needs, but maintain equality across the board. We combine the educational mission with a babysitting mission that says kids need to be supervised and structured. We also expect schools to pick up the slack for parents who can't or won't or don't provide things at home.

The school system we have is kind of the lowest common denominator. It doesn't do a perfect job with any of the kids, but represents a compromise between trying to achieve equality while serving everyone's individual needs and providing special help to those who need it, all while providing safety and supervision for 8 hours a day, 186 days/year...within a limited budget.

Of course, if you feel like your kid is not well-served by this imperfect system, you are free to make alternate arrangements. You just have to figure out how to pay for it yourself.

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